The public sentiment is sharply divided on the conflict, with strong support for Ukraine's retaliation against Russian energy targets seen as a necessary response to ongoing aggression. While some commentators oppose the violence and advocate for peace, many argue that crippling Russia's energy infrastructure is essential for ultimately ending the conflict and reducing civilian casualties.

Ukraine

Russia

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There's just something magic about seeing russian oil refineries burning, so let's just hope Ukraine picks up the pace! Just a few year ago they were mocking the West which was supposedly "freezing" during winder without their gas, now we came to the point where that very petrostate is experiencing gasoline shortages lmaoo

TheBigOof96

It is certainly a timed and orchestrated action we even see cruise missile production and ballistics production likely timed for this. The ballistic rocket facilities were claimed lost however those would have been required to destroy difficult targets even anti-air sites and air bases, semi-hard targets like refineries and other targets for good.

Ukraine has been - analysts also say this; conducting strikes with limited effectiveness with available weapons, but these have merely caused fires that are put out or the damage has been repaired in a short time or caused the loss of a small amount of secondary equipment. They need weapons that can destroy all the secondary and primary equipment in a refinery for example to shut them down for a long time.

Arctovigil

What is funny is that this is one of about 25 articles over the past 2 years that have said the exact same thing. 

Yet the total amount of damage Ukraine has dealt Russia is about $1.3 billion. 

With these attacks, maybe they will hit $1.4 or even $1.5 billion. 

Russian damage of Ukrainian energy infrastructure is about $98.7 billion - $100 billion. 

Ukraine is suffering damages that can’t even be covered by its GDP. That is a huge problem. 

Now if you narrow it down to just “are they hitting Russia/Ukraine energy infrastructure” the answer to both is yes. 

But the scale is even with the fully back of NATO 100 to 1.

Mundane_Emu8921

Good! Keep it up Ukraine, the Russian central bank has done a great job so far but short of magic (and by their own words) they’re running out of options.

Curious to see if they actually do need to cut the military budget next year like Putin said.

The-Intermediator141

Thus the Ukraine initiated infrastructure war v3.0 continues. Just in time for the upcoming winter.

Russia will retaliate and knock out another portion of whatever Ukraine has left still running, and Zelensky will once again come out on the world stage to claim more completely unprovoked, aggressive, inhumane attacks on civilian infrastructure and that Russia doesn't really want peace, despite the peace talks charade they are entertaining with Trump; so give them more sanctions and give Ukraine more money and weapons.

There have also been a synchronized orchestra of "Ukraine is not weak" statements coming out across western media in one form or another in the last couple of days. These attacks are meant to be physical proof of those statements, with no regards to the cost or consequences that the country itself and its people are going to incur for it. Why are these statements needed? To convince Trump that Ukraine is still in the game, and make him change his mind about the "balance of power" during the ongoing "peace negotiations".  

Ultimately none of that changes anything when it comes to Russia's progress and gains on the front line; which will continue grinding down Ukrainian armed forces (which are at around 30% fighting capacity) until no cohesive defence can be put up any longer, and which point everything is just going to collapse and no amount of "at this rate they'll be in Kiyv in 25 years" arguments are going to help. 

All these tricks and roadblocks on the path to cessation of hostilities (whichever form those might take) are going to do is buy more time for even more money to be stolen, more of Ukraine turned to ruin, and even more of their people violently grabbed from the streets, thrown on the front lines and killed.

Nobody in the west has an actual plan for how to end all of this. Everything they do is just delay and postpone, and hope things somehow work out themselves, or a meteorite lands on Putin's head or something.

VintageGriffin

It's working to raise energy prices for the many countries that depend on Russian energy infrastructure for power they can afford, at prices other European countries refuse to sell them at.  I'm not sure what Ukraine's long-term strategy is here...to alienate many of its neighbors who previously had no beef with Ukraine *or* Russia? Picking their pockets and destabilizing their energy supplies for their own war?

Zelenskyy has explicitly stated that he wants Ukraine to be a "big Israel". On that front, he's nailing "zero accountability for any of their actions, destabilizing infrastructure for multiple countries, endless weapons supplies from western liberal democracies, and unrestrained doting PR from western media". I guess all he needs to complete his goal of being Israel is to do a genocide an ethnicity he hates.

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“Ukraine is long past the time to do it. This is a bloody war. You can’t fight it in velvet gloves and ignore civilian infrastructure when the other side razes everything to the ground and doesn’t give a fuck about anything or anyone. Electricity and oil. Nothing has changed since 1939.” -BlueShadowBroker

Icy_Till_7254

Good, hit Moscow next 🙏🇺🇦👍🏻

Background-Youth-919

About time , winters on it’s way Moscow could be freezing without power or gas ⛽️

BreakGrouchy

I mean it's a power plant in a frontline province, it helps to run Russia's invasion, it's a fair target by long-standing convention if not by stated treaty.

It's worth noting that by the same token, Russia striking Ukrainian power plants has not in and of itself been among the Russian actions that observers find most reprehensible.  The difference is that Russia has not limited itself to "dual-use" targets such as rail, fuel, air, industrial, and power infrastructure — they have *also* targeted purely civilian infrastructure such as electrical substations, not to mention unleashing vastly destructive forces such as their destruction of the Kakhovka Dam and threatening nuclear reactor meltdown.

In addition to the great heaping pile of more obvious atrocities that Russia has also perpetrated.

Ukraine continues with its laser-like focus on targets of military significance.  Russian rear echelon military forces operating out of Belgorod are going to be directly impeded by this strike, resorting to generator power that will put an increasing strain on the already stretched fuel supply.

I'm sure many Russian civilians will find this inconvenient, but if pure civilian misery were Ukraine's actual goal, they would have made different targeting decisions long ago.

And, frankly, probably have done much more poorly as a result.  Russia's decisions have not just been enormous crimes, but also an enormous mistake.

amitym

This is way, way, over due.  ruzzia should not be free to knock out Ukraine's electrictiy and then believe they won't get the same back.  That is not how deterence works. russia opened the door.   I believe that weak Western politicians have pressured Ukraine not to strike ruzzia's electrical grid.  I hope we are done with that nonsense.

Joey1849

Russia has attacked ked enough civilian structures for Ukraine to just make these power plants a target

empiricalreddit

The key thing to keep in mind is unlike Ukraine, Russia has may more electrical generation and distribution targets and has far fewer options to import electricity from Europe.

Take out a certain fraction of the supply to Moscow in the middle of winter and bad things will happen.

Zealousideal_Rise716

Good.
It’s about time. Let the Russians freeze.

No oil or gas or electricity? Winter is coming? 
Fun times!

Sargent_Duck85

Yep do it. Russia has been striking Ukr energy generation for years. It’s things like this, and hitting oil production that puts the pressure on. 
Moscow next!

Geopoliticsandbongs

Creative-Routine4874

DashboardError

ghosttrainhobo

meissoboredto

I wish some internal dissenters could get some large amounts of thermite and some drones. Imagine the damage to substations if people could get thermite ignited on the biggest transformers. Maybe even on the base of some important high voltage transmission lines. I’m sure it’d be quite a nuisance. Not to mention thermite on some freight rail bridges.

PlsDntPMme

lethalfang

About time! I say expand the list and bring him to his knees. Quits screwing around. Your people are dying.

livingwellish

Teabagger-of-morons

I think the west has been kind of scared to show force,,, integrity… resolve…
I understand the game play,,, 
But it’s time to absorb Ukraine into west ideology…

King-Tito

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The only way you win a war is you remove their desire to keep fighting. 

  
This seems like a great plan for that.

discourse_friendly

Definitely. It's the only way that Russia and the Russians can learn that they shouldn't be attacking people. They need to feel it personally.

satyrday12

1. It is war. Oil refineries are a key industrial target and fair game. Yes on striking and the goal needs to be to inflict pain on the average Russian. 

2. Yes, the attacks will shorten the war by either cutting off Russia’s ability to finance the war long term or by increasing political pressure from inside and outside the regime. If Russian can’t give China discount oil, China will kick them to the curb.

3. The two are incredibly interconnected. It is virtually impossible to incapacitate a nations military capabilities without interfering with civilian life. It’s war. By nature, war is hell and should be viewed in no other light. 

My personal opinion, which is not worth much, is fighting a war like is happening in Ukraine without hammering every possible target is a fruitless endeavor. If a nations military relies on electricity, medical supplies, food, water, etc you target it all. The more brutal it is, the faster it will end. Had the world allowed Ukraine to strike Russian oil assets in 2023, w the war would likely be over today. 

Nuclear weapons are scary, but you can’t live in fear of them. If you do, everyone will want one because it will be seen as an insurance card. If someone uses them even once, hellfire should rain down upon that civilization to make an example of them.

OpportunityNew9316

&gt; would it harden Russian resolve and push Moscow closer to countries like China and Iran?


You're way too late on this one. Moscow is already hitting NATO with sabotage, election interference, bribery, espionage, and even border incursions. They're trading military technologies with Iran and North Korea. China is supplying them with much of the 'dual use' technology they need to continue fighting, and Russia is trying to build a large pipeline from Siberia to China. Rapprochement isn't going to happen anytime soon.

GiantPineapple

I don’t understand why they wouldn’t keep striking oil refineries given how effective it’s been. If anything they would want to break Russia’s economy since that is what ultimately power’s Russia’s war machine.

AlexandrTheTolerable

Oh absolutely.  Russia attacked Ukraine,  Ukraine can do what ever the fuck they want to.

someoldguyon_reddit

Wars of aggression in the modern era should have steep economic costs associated with them. Ukraine is doing the correct thing here. If Russian citizens don’t appreciate it they should let their leader know.

undead_opossum

From what I've read, the Russian economy is already teetering. Defense manufacturing is the only sector still functioning normally, and it's in overdrive. This is both good and bad. Good, in the sense that Russia has real economic problems and that could spell the end of Putin. Bad, in that Putin likely can't just pull the plug on this disastrous war, without risking total collapse of the Russian Federation. 

Ukraine has to play the few angles they have in this conflict to hurt Russia. Considering how aggressive Russia has been about targeting civilian infrastructure, hospitals, schools, apartment buildings and such, I don't think any reasonable argument can be made that targeting Russian refineries in return is immoral, or strategically unhelpful.

BluesSuedeClues

1. Yes.  
2. Yes.  
3. That's more complicated.

Lets not mince words. Ukraine and Russia are at War. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is defending themselves. They put up defenses, they are holding lines where they can, but in a 'playground' - do you just put up your fist and arms to stop the bully? or do you punch back? The answer is - you need to punch back or they are going to keep coming at you. Russia is a bully. They need to be given a few black eyes. Or more. To do that you need to go after their infrastructure, and that's what Ukraine is doing now.

Daneyn

I am reminded of the wartime quote by British Air Marshall Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris: "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."

mycatisgrumpy

1 - Yes. If the Russian civilians don't like it, they can take it up with Putin. He can pull air defense back from Ukraine so they can thump troops instead 


2 - Only Putin can stop the war. The only way it will stop is if he feels pain. Ukraine doesn't give two shits if Russia aligns with China if it gets the invaders to fuck off


3 - Given how Russia routinely attacks Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians, they don't have any reason to whine about it

Objective_Aside1858

Breaking Russia's back via economic means is literally the objective and its basically the only way they can win this war in the end. So yes. Keep bombing the shit out of Russian oil and gas.

SorryToPopYourBubble

How else one could stop the military machine if not breaking its mechanism and not just keep fighting the products of this military machine while having less resources?

Whatever-That-Memes

Who is going to say no to this? They're literally at war, of course you target your enemy's oil in a war, that's a no brainer. Anything that serves a military purpose is a legitimate target, it's irrelevant that it also has civilian uses.

Knight_Machiavelli

I don't find this to be any kind of ethical dilemma at all. Waging war against the means to make war is totally acceptable and not a single ally should be objecting.

DCBuckeye82

Ukraine lacks the manpower to win through brute force on the battlefield.  It can maintain defensive positions and inflict a lot of damage, but it does not have the means to mount a sustained offensive to take much territory.  

Ukraine's pathway to victory lies in making the war untenable for Putin to continue it.  Making life miserable for everyday Russians, depriving the treasury of revenue, destroying infrastructure and creating distractions that force Russia to play defense will get them there.  

Putin has maintained his rule by promising prosperity to those in the major cities of the west in exchange for passive acceptance of his authoritarianism.  Failing to deliver on the promised prosperity weakens his ability to hold power.  

Putin has few allies, so his growing weakness will likely lead to his opponents making plans as they consider next steps.  The oligarchs don't want to go down with the Putin ship.

I405CA

They should level the fucking Kremlins at this point. The Russians only understand belligerent violence.

McCool303

They are at war. Breaking Russia's economy is a national security objective. Of fucking course they should keep hitting them.

the_calibre_cat

Of course. Striking at oil refineries is way better than striking at apartment buildings if you want to keep civilian casualties (especially children) to a minimum.

Ana_Na_Moose

Consequence of war. If the civilians don't like being in poverty, maybe they can vote for someone else to go in office and make decisions./s

RexDraco

1: Yes. Oil refineries are legitimate military targets. Some of that oil will end up as fuel for the drones that Russia sends into Ukraine. 

2: Potentially. Russia is almost on a total war footing. It needs those refineries to earn money for its war machine and to fuel its jets, drones, trucks, and tanks. No gas, no fight. Russia has already moved closer to both of them. However, Iran's ability to assist the Russians is limited and they have an Israel-shaped threat to deal with. The Chinese are always going to hedge their bets against the Russians because they want access to the global economy. 

3: The line is basically anything that funds, fuels, or builds for the war. A powerplant can be a legitimate target if it supplies electricity to an airfield. Oil refineries are legitimate targets because they produce oil for weapons production and fueling. Bridges can be legitimate targets because they're used to move troops, etc.

EdgeWardog

Yes. Russia doesn't worry about unintended consequences when they invaded Ukraine. Why should they? We did nothing when they took Crimea. Hit Russia early and often.

baxterstate

Whatever Russia is doing to Ukraine should be fair game for Ukraine to do to Russia.

MEDICARE_FOR_ALL

It is war, yes?

In war infrastructure gets decimated as a war tactic, simple as that. Surprised its taken them this long to start hitting those targets.

LikelySoutherner

Absolutely yes.

Striking Russian oil and gas sectors deprives Russia of the wealth needed to keep the war going, and brings the war home so to speak, thus increasing the political pressure in Kreml to end the war.

Collapsing Russian economy is just a nice bonus that helps the whole Europe to be safer so that Europeans can spend their time and money to improve their economies instead of buying and manufacturing more arms and munitions.

VilleKivinen

Definitely. 

Ukraine is defending itself against an aggressor and as long as it's military related, it should be okay.

TonyG_from_NYC

We just watched our leaders tell us that they will have no mercy on there own citizens. Your worried about the oil? Blow up every damn facility you see that's the American way apparently and don't you know we are winners.

FaintXD

Excuse me?

That would be like offering that mustachioed German dictator 80 years ago a few shiping convoys of supplies. Why would we want to make life easier for the Russians?They are the invaders, as to the "civilians", sod them all as they are just as complicit as any grunt in the army. Maybe if their economy collapsed, they would line them all against the wall and end them and surrender to NATO and start rebuilding without the oligarcs and PuuPuu

Margali

None of what you stated is a reason for Ukraine to stop these strikes. If Russia stops being able to pay their soldiers then Ukraine can win. Why would I give a shit that Russian civilians are being made uncomfortable by a failing economy when the solution is to stop the invasion of their neighbor?

pleased_to_yeet_you

Who started this war? Russia. Who was the aggressor? Again, Russia. Who has been selling black market oil in order to fund the war? Thrice now, Russia. Of course the Ukraine is well within their rights  to attack Refineries controlled and operated by Russia.

ChelseaMan31

I don't even see how this is a question. They're at war, they should strike anything that stops the drones from killing their children.

maphingis

Double that with Europe to hopefully cut off Russia as an oil source and then Putin starts to feel the pinch.   Why the EU chooses to fund both sides of the war is confounding to their rhetoric regarding Ukraine.

Funklestein

From Sun Tzu, the Order of Battle is (from least to most expensive/complicated):

\- Attack the Man  
\- Attack the Plan  
\- Attack the Alliances  
\- Attack the Resources  
\- Attack the Army in the Field  
\- Attack the Cities

Putin is dug in and protected (so far), and his plan is at the expensive end:  the Army in the Field and Cities.  Russian alliances are a bit iffy - China and NorK, but China wouldn't mind seeing Russia flounder.   Ukranian alliances are many and varied, ranging from NATO in general to many other countries including US.

The oil refineries (Ploesti and Dutch East Indies in WW II, anyone?) are the next obvious soft spot to strike as the Resources tier is now in play.

atomicsnarl

With Ukraine trying to bring the war to home for the average Russian and hurt the supply lines of fuel and industry in that country, I think that makes sense. Given the crimes Russia has commited against average Ukraine civilians it's not unjustified at all. 

1. Ukraine should continue targeting those refineries to cripple Russia's fighting ability so they can potentially be pushed into the diplomatic process. And global markets and supply chains have had adequate time to reroute so impact on the world stage will be not as drastic. 

2. Destroying more refineries will harm their military's supply chain and hopefully shorten the war or at least cause significant damage to Russian economy over the medium term. Moscow is already in bed with China and Iran and that's likely not changing anytime soon. 

3. That's a hard call, but it's hard to force your country to make that distinction when your enemy has made total war against your civilian infrastructure for so long. Governments should generally focus on legit military targets unless in a total war scenario, like what is happening now.

Craft_feisty

This isn’t an attack on civilians, but on infrastructure. Yes, that also affects civilians, and that’s bad- wars should try their best to minimize influence on civilian populations. But appeasement is worse than that. Russia attacked Ukraine and has been attacking Ukrainian infrastructure- and targeting civilians directly- for some time, now. For Ukraine to put itself at such a disadvantage as to not attack Russian infrastructure because of the negative effects that has on Russian civilians is appeasement. It only encourages Russia to engage in such activities further, and thereby puts civilians *more* at risk, not less

If one want civilians targeted less, Ukraine should continue these activities

Mountain-Resource656

Yes. Ruining the Russian economy ruins the Russian war effort.

Doing so saves both Ukrainian and Russian lives in the long run.

DJ_HazyPond292

1) Yes. They're at war, the entire point is to find ways to win - as long as it doesn't kill civilians to do it.  
2) It'd be tough for the Russians. With Ukraine, I'd like to think Europe has their back, there's going to be an economic cost (hopefully eventually paid by Russia) but Ukraine will stand as Ukraine at the end of this. Russia and China, while neighbours, are allies of convenience. China will help if it's in their own best interest, and if that helps to weaken Russia while strengthening themselves, they'll do it  
3) If these refineries are providing finance to keep the military machine going, they're valid targets. They need to mitigate civilian risk, they can't just carpet bomb everything to achieve their target.

Secret-Sky5031

This is happening in Europe’s back door. They should be doing everything to support Ukraine and stop all business transactions with Russia. 

Absolutely.....strike Russian oil and gas processing equipment.
Cripple their economy.

tonyd1957

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. If you attack us, destroy our assets, kill our civilians, etc. - the defender can destroy gas/oil energy source to cripple the war effort, which includes propping up the war economy.

GshegoshB

1. Yes, definitely.

2. Yes to both.

3. Ridiculous question. There are no such lines. Destroying the enemy's infrastructure is one of the main points of successful warfare, to make them incapable of continuing the fight. 

People sometimes seem to think of war as a refereed sporting event between two professional armies that try to prevent civilian deaths. It isn't. Civilians are the ultimate target of all warfare. The point of the exercise is to inflict so many civilian deaths that the other side sees the hopelessness of their position and gives up fighting to preserve what's left.

If you asked that question of the leaders in WWII, they would be dumbfounded at the naivete of the questioner. The whole plan plan of every nation involved was to destroy enough of the enemy infrastructure to make resistance impossible, and if that involved distress to the civilian population, that too, was part of the plan to get those civilians force the government to stop the war.

Tliish

&gt; Energy facilities are considered “dual use” — they support both military and civilian needs. That makes them a gray area under international law and ethics. 

Bluntly, this is not true at all. Yes, they have more than one purpose, but that does not make them a grey area. 

They are generally considered legitimate military targets, and have been heavily targeted in pretty much every war since oil became relevant to war a century ago. (Also: Pretty much any other logistics infrastructure can be legitimately targeted - roads, rails, ports, bridges, etc. Civilians use/benefit from these things, but they are still entirely legitimate military targets in most cases.)

-----

1. Obviously, they're extremely high-value targets that directly impact Russia's ability to continue the war. Both in impacting military logistics directly and in impacting Russia's finances and ability to finance/continue the war.

2. Putin has been firmly resolved from the beginning. Ordinary Russians do not appear to ever have been convinced of the necessity/value of the war and thus they're unlikely to become larger supporters of the war by facing hardship resulting from it. (Note: That doesn't mean Russians originally opposed the war - plenty were perfectly happy to support it if Russia would be winning quickly + easily)

3. While I think there's always going to be an actual grey area of modest military benefit weighed against significant civilian harms, I don't think most of the things people frequently debate are that grey, and I don't think pretty much any of Ukraine's target choices so far are in that grey area.

SkiingAway

Errr yes. Russian civilians need to suffer. The more they do. The more likely they are to overthrow Putin and end the war. Suffering economically is a good way to achieve this.

throwawayanon1252

Really? How about all the hospitals, schools and apartment buildings that Russia has bombed in the Ukraine? How about all of the electric plants in the Ukraine that Russia has bombed?

Just who started this war?

Russia is just now discovering the "find out" side of FAFO.

pinellaspete

Yes. Russia has also attacked dual / civil targets in Ukraine. Also, the current regime in Russia has shown willingness for imperial warfare from Chechnya onward, clinging to fossil fuels, and antidemocratic meddling with Western politics and elections.

The world will not know peace until Putin's government falls and is superceded by something quite different. It'll take a lot, but that must be the goal.

jlehtira

1. I don't see how this saves Ukrainian lives, this more likely will anger Russian side to start striking without caring about them.

2. Firstly, contrary to popular yet very wrong belief, Ukrainian civilian casualty since 2022 is less than 2%. Russia is already out of the Western Banking System yet we, the Europeans feel the economical crisis approaching step by step.

3. There is the ICC for a reason just that, nobody gives a F about it.

zaplayer20

I find it amazing that those in the Russian government don’t realize how counterproductive this sort of behavior is to their own interests.

Different_Ice_6975

Vatniks invading comment section quite successfully, too bad that's the only thing they can successful achieve

waallp

Oh yes, it's always Russia. Russia is the cause of every fire in Europe, no doubt

Friendly-Sandwich-69

Vegetable-River-253

The attacks on the tgv before the olympics have been proved to be linked with russia? didn’t know

UnMaxDeKEuros

Salt_Lynx270

ExoticReindeer3567

PantiesPut267

I bet European governments are so happy Russia is around otherwise they would be looking at themselves in the mirror.

mumei14

Three telephone antenna destroyed in a fire.

Honestly is it worth the effort? If this is indeed russia their intelligence services needs to take a hard look in the mirror every morning

Aware-Computer4550

The states and Ukraine blew up a whole ass pipeline too.

Breakin7

Funny.Any breakdown in the EU is blamed on Russia, not on incompetent people.Even the damage to the cable is marked on the diagram, the investigation of which showed that the Russian ships were not even close there at that moment .And the "spy" drones glowing at night are beneficial only to Ukraine for spreading anti-Russian hysteria and obtaining money and weapons.

trs12571

when the goverment has problems they look for an external enemy))

everywhere. everytime

Unhappy-Performer409

The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written by /u/BalticBro2021.

Russia attacked Kyiv last night like they regularly do and killed 14 people.  Think of a fairly significant mass shooting in a US city on an almost daily basis.  That's life for people in Kyiv.  They have to constantly run for bomb shelters, loosing sleep, businesses can't operate effectively and they're totally dependent on US aid for air defense.  

At this point it's beyond clear to me that Russia only understands violence.  I think we need to disrupt life for people in cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg like how Russia does with Ukraine.  Give Ukraine long range missiles and drones.  For every attack on a Ukrainian city, Ukraine should be able to dish out the same right back at Moscow, make everyone there run for the bomb shelters and wake up to sirens going off every night like how Ukrainians have to.  So far Ukraine has done a fantastic job attacking Russian energy infrastructure, they've driven up gas prices quite a bit inside Russia but it's not enough and clearly Putin doesn't care.  We need to turn up the heat to get Russia to negotiate.   

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Ukraine should be whatever it needs, with literally no exceptions.  

If you have a question, just re-read the comment.

cranialrectumongus

Or we could just let them into NATO and tell Russia to fuck off or we'll obliterate them.

tonydiethelm

srv340mike

Eric848448

Odd-Principle8147

Putin wants to put the USSR back together. Unless we want that to happen, we'll have to fight, and fighting is easier now than it will be at any point in the future.

mesarasa

EngelSterben

Yes. Give them MRBMs, 5th gen aircraft, cruise missiles, unlimited armor and ATACMs

Lauffener

Yes, and American boots on the ground to retake their lost territory and form a buffer. 

Russia must learn to respect international law.

DannyBones00

ManufacturerThis7741

thomashush

The-zKR0N0S

The only way this war will end is if the Russian people feel the pain and suffering at home.  

But we should not send them these weapons unless we are ready to commit to a full on WWIII, it's one thing to provide defensive aid it's another to provide offensive.  Providing offensive weapons is an act of war and we will be forced to put boots on the ground.  Are we really ready to commit to this, to a full retool of our economy into a war economy, to drafts, etc....

As Far-Plum said, Ukraine is developing their own weapons to these attacks, continue offering defensive aid and when their weapons are ready do nothing to stop or discourage their use in whatever fashion Ukraine thinks is right.

Hodgkisl

Russia launched its largest attack on Ukraine's gas network, targeting significant energy facilities ahead of winter, leading to power outages across regions.

Russian Attacks on Ukraine's Energy Infrastructure

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